The only Truth that stands before us is Obama-sorry not for me

I am afraid I am a die hard Hillary fan. And I am a bit miffed at the fact that blacks can support Obama at 90% but women can't get their act together and support the first woman candidate in history at the same rates. Especially one who was so much more experienced than her opponent. I wonder what ancient gene we carry that makes us look at each other as competitors rather than allies?

In fact I just got back from the Texas Democratic convention, which took place over the weekend.  Hillary won the popular vote in Texas but the caucus system that followed after gave Obama the lead from the caucuses and he ended up with 99 delegates to her 94. Based on my direct experiences here with the Kool-aid drinkers I am sure had it been reversed and Obama had lost to Hillary in such a close contest there would have been a blood bath at the convention.

It was hilarious for Hillary supporters at the convention because the at large delegates are chosen by a long drawn out process. After the party determines the split they then turn it over to the campaigns themselves to pick their delegates. The Clinton campaign process went quickly and the slate was submitted based on rewarding those that helped the nominee the most in the state. The Obama campaign however had huge problems. Dallas has two potential black power bases. One is a guy named Ron Kirk -wealthy black attorney and the other is the senator from the 23 district -Royce West- an old time typical democratic political power broker- the worst of that kind whether you are white or black. Well Royce West submitted his own slate completely ignoring the campaign's slate and since he had bought (not literally i.e. with money) the vote of the right members of the committee - he won. The floor fight was soooo entertaining watching them fighting amongst themselves and such a harbinger of what is to come.

I supported Hillary initially because she worked to achieve single payer health care before it was cool and she (and Bill Clinton before her) understand how hard it is for most people in the US to survive day to day and they understand that government policies shape the ability of these people to compete. Her policies would have been even more fair and progressive than her husbands (she's even smarter). And finally I supported her because she is a woman.

The reason I did not support Obama were a) he had no intention of pushing for universal healthcare and anything less will fail (can you say panderer), b) he blamed the democrats and republicans equally for the gridlock in Washington which in my mind is utterly naive or a deeply cynical ploy to win the election and c) if he is supposed to be the savior/ transformational character he portrays himself as then there would have been some evidence of that from his 8 years in his senatorial district. But there are no new initiatives that he "inspired " people to do for themselves nor any that he spearheaded to make a real difference in their lives -he was merely competent and showed up to vote (except for the excess of present votes he seemed to cast). In other words he is way too middle of the road for me and all decisions have been made to advance his career (the latest being throwing his church under the bus after 20 years of being a member- lets not get into why he started going).

So is America ready for a black president, maybe, but in my mind not this black nominee against this republican nominee. I believe that Obama has already peaked in terms of generating Kool-aid drinkers and that barely got him half of the democratic party. An analysis of the primaries vs. the caucuses through June 2nd showed that 34.5 million people participated in primaries and Hillary won those by both popular votes and delegates (i.e. +67). The caucus states had 1.1 million participants but netted Obama +205 delegates- so the voices of a tiny percentage of Americans overturned the majority (http://www.talkleft.com/media/caucusjune 2rev.pdf). While that is a clever campaign strategy it does not win you the general. I think he will have a huge loss to McCain and then all the hand wringing will start over again. How could the dems have lost when every thing indicated a landslide? He may end up the most hated man in the democratic party as were/ are  Kerry and Gore.

Many Hillary supporters will support Obama whether they really like him or not but he will lose a significant number of the women's vote because he called Hillary a liar and dishonest and willing to do anything to win. He used republican talking points and questioned her character repeatedly. He will also lose a significant amount of the Hispanic and Asian vote for a variety of reasons - some to do with racism and some to do with his lack of experience.  And he has completely lost the blue collar worker that is required to win West Virginia, Kentucky Ohio, Pennsylvania etc, the so-called Reagan Democrats and without those three groups he cannot put together an electoral college win.

Perhaps he will register all those people in this country who never vote and that will put him over the top. But I can tell you the Oba-ma-niacs who came out to participate this year are not interested in the process beyond him. The most striking thing was how many people wandered around the convention wearing T-shirts that said, "The only Truth that stands before us is Obama". I find that frightening. Can you imagine wearing such a thing for Kerry or Hillary? The president of the US is not the messiah. Are all of his supporters that way -of course not. But too many are. Have you ever visited his web site? He is in a white suit at the top of the page in a blue background with clouds all around. It couldn't be clearer what they want to imply. During the primaries (they seem to have taken it down now) he had a map of the US with rays of light coming out of each state that he won. Truly scary.

I can safely vote my conscience this year because neither Hillary nor Obama will win Texas. So I will go out and punch the ballot for every democrat except him and I hope I am able to write in Hillary. My calculation might be different in a swing state, but perhaps not. Many I know feel the same way. Meanwhile I will work to eliminate the caucus part of our voting system here.  The obama -ites would not allow us to revamp the laughable Texas caucus system this time because that would delegitimize his win but they won't be at the convention in 2 years so it can be done then. The super delegates did not accomplish what they were created for anyway (choosing the candidate that can win in NOvember) and so for the sake of real democracy should be eliminated. Those are changes I can work for and then make sure Hillary is the candidate in 2012 when she will have no trouble beating the incumbent McCain.

I hope the Supreme Court remains as is but that is up to Patrick Leahy and the other democrats that are going to have to grow a backbone. This does have a silver lining. If McCain wins the repugs will own this war completely and they won't be able to blame democrats for losing it. That is worth a lot.

The media (and super delegates and Obama spokespersons) excoriated Hillary for staying in the race and accused her of thinking she was entitled. It is more complicated than that. She stayed in because WE (women) are the ones who are entitled - she stayed in it for us. All I can say is Thank you Hillary.



Display:


Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (2.00 / 5)

Ahh, savour the trolly goodness.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:01:37 PM EST

What really bugs me .... (none / 0)

about your response to the diarist is your quick ability to completely dismiss her opinions and experiences as 'trolly goodness'.

That's one of the things that absolutely sticks in the craw (look it up if you don't understand the term) of some die hard Hillary supporters.  Your candidate won the delegates, but that doesn't necessarily mean there are no other options for Hillary supporters, nor does it mean that the feelings (I know you folks don't give a rats rear end about Hillary supporters 'feelings') of her supporters are not genuine for them.

Yes, there's a future to look towards and a literal war to be won, and a Nation to save.  Telling one side they have to 'suck it up' and give in to the collective  doesn't make them want to go out and vote in the rain or bad weather or if there is something else to do, like washing the dog.  Keep it up and I am sure some folks will stay home to wash the dog.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 10:33:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What really bugs me .... (none / 0)

What, the part where we're "Kool-aid drinkers"? Or how lame it is that women won't vote for the women candidate no matter what? Or African-Americans only support Obama because of his race? Which one of those points are ones most Hillary Clinton supporters share, that don't make the diarist a troll?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 12:49:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ah, brother. Hillary's already doing her part to (2.00 / 4)

support Obama. She says it would be a GRAVE ERROR not to vote for Obama.


by slinkerwink on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:03:35 PM EST

hillary isn't even close to being the first... (2.00 / 1)

woman candidate.  that honor might have been jeanette rankin, but i can't say for sure.

i'm probably not the only person who thinks that the first female president will probably be republican...


"This is the time for resolve and steady leadership" -- Barack Obama
by bored now on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:04:04 PM EST

Re: hillary isn't even close to being the first... (none / 0)

You probably are .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:07:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hillary isn't even close to being the first... (1.00 / 3)

obviously for president


by Bornagaindem on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TR'd for Kool Aid reference (none / 0)

We're not doing that these days.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:22:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

obviously, you'd still be wrong... (none / 0)

again, i can't say for sure, but i suspect shirley chisholm was the first female candidate for president.  then there was pat schroeder.

just sayin...


"This is the time for resolve and steady leadership" -- Barack Obama
by bored now on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:33:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hillary isn't even close to being the first... (2.00 / 1)

Interestingly, Obama is not the first minority to run for higher office (Prez or VP).  That honor belongs to Charles Curtis, Hoover's VP.  He was half Native American.


by katmandu1 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hillary isn't even close to being the first... (none / 0)

Thank you for the information Captain Obvious.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:42:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (2.00 / 7)

I disagree with virtually everything in this diary but I'll highlight only two points.

1) The idea that the Senate will save the Court from McCain's appointees is a fairy tale.

2)

If McCain wins the repugs will own this war completely and they won't be able to blame democrats for losing it. That is worth a lot.

Credit and blame are worth approximately nothing.  They only matter if you believe in the permanent campaign, which, thankfully, Obama does not.

Vote for whom you want.  To me, these are not convincing reasons not to support Obama if you are, in fact, a Democrat and do, in fact, want to see any of what Clinton stands for enacted.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:05:59 PM EST

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

Credit and blame are worth approximately nothing.  

 - I believe you are wrong.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:09:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

/ - I believe you are wrong./

Fair enough.  Care to elaborate?


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:11:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (2.00 / 1)

Democrats are still battling the Vietnam syndrome on National security.

Jimmy Carter lost an election to Reagan on the Iran hostage Crisis situation.

Reagan took the credit for the release of the hostages even though thats not how it happened....

I can go on and on.

On topics of war and peace , credit and blame are worth something.

In politics , credit and blame are the engines of success.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:17:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

and/or failure.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:18:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (2.00 / 2)

Well, like I said, credit and blame matter if you're governing in the permanent campaign.  Should Carter have based his Iran policy on how the Republicans would play it in 1980?  That's how Johnson kept us in Vietnam--he didn't want the blame of being the Democrat who quit on a war.

Letting McCain fuck up the Iraq situation even further so that Democrats can have ammunition in some future election is, to my mind, a simply terrible idea.  Obama won my support mostly by convincing me that this is exactly how he won't govern.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:24:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (2.00 / 1)

politics and political parties are a permanent campaigns.

If they weren't the dems in congress would have pulled the plug on the funds for the war like they promised on the trail prior to the election.

It would be naive to think Obama would not consider credit/blame in terms of his second term or legacy if he is elected .

Thats just how politics plays out.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

And yet he is already hedging on his tax plan.

come on, he's a politican...he will triangulate and coordinate in the end.  Or he will accomplish NOTHING.

Be prepared for it, it's coming.  In the mean time, we all need to coalese around the down-ticket races.  The more numbers we have in the House and Senate, the less triangulation has to be done.  If you're all about the White House, then there will be no change coming.

The numbers and real CHANGE have to come from the House and Senate.  There is where we have to help Obama and the DEM's.  There is where the fight is.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 04:37:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

come on, he's a politican...he will triangulate and coordinate in the end.  Or he will accomplish NOTHING.

Oh, I know he will.  I'm expecting it.  He realizes that nobody ever gets precisely what they want, and that compromise and action often trump holding out for a purist vision.

That's different than basing policy choices exclusively on credit and blame, and letting electoral concerns dictate policy.  He'll do some of that, I'm sure--human nature and all that.  But I support his candidacy because I'll believe he'll do it less.

And my original point was that letting John McCain win and "own" the Iraq War so some Dem can use it as electoral ammo in 2112 is, shall we say, a poor idea.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 07:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

come on, he's a politican...he will triangulate and coordinate in the end.  Or he will accomplish NOTHING.

Oh, I know he will.  I'm expecting it.  He realizes that nobody ever gets precisely what they want, and that compromise and action often trump holding out for a purist vision.

That's different than basing policy choices exclusively on credit and blame, and letting electoral concerns dictate policy.  He'll do some of that, I'm sure--human nature and all that.  But I support his candidacy because I'll believe he'll do it less.

And my original point was that letting John McCain win and "own" the Iraq War so some Dem can use it as electoral ammo in 2112 is, shall we say, a poor idea.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 07:37:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (2.00 / 2)

How would you weigh credit or blame versus the roughly 3500 or so American service members that will be killed in action in the next four years under McCain?  Or the roughly 20,000 with severe injuries? Or the 50,000 plus Iraqi casualties?  

I know I wouldn't try to sell "credit and blame" to a grieving veteran's family.  


by Twin Planets on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:28:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

You realize of course that Obama supported one of the worst Iraq war mongers in the U.S. Senate in that senator's bid for re-election:  Lieberman.

Maybe you should also weigh the credit or blame for those who have died or been injured in Iraq since Obama's endorsement of Lieberman and since Lieberman returned to the Senate and effectively blocked the Dems from working to end the war.  Where was Obama when we needed him back in 2006 on that issue?


by wdAUS on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so did Hillary (none / 0)

they were both wrong on that one.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 08:47:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You don't believe Obama... (none / 0)

was campaigning for president ever since that 2004 convention speech? I do and probably long before that.


by JimR on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Probably (none / 0)

and Hillary Clinton has been campaigning for President since 1992.

Reagan from 1964 on.

Kennedy started campaigning in 1952.

Presidents have a funny way of wanting to be President long before they actually run.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 08:48:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My comment was in reference to... (none / 0)

"Credit and blame are worth approximately nothing.  They only matter if you believe in the permanent campaign, which, thankfully, Obama does not."

Your point is correct. Obama is no different than the rest of them regardless of how much his supporters try to make him out to be.

:)


by JimR on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:10:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey, Obama supporters ! (2.00 / 1)

If a pro Hillary person feels the need to vent, just let her/him, and let them get over it, and, well, just STFU until things calm down.  Most progressives will come home eventually, if you stop the rude triumphalism.
Attacks and snark-fests aren't going to change any hearts or minds.  You're just picking at a scab that needs to heal.  
My opinion, fwiw.
John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:07:40 PM EST

Nothing will change some minds (2.00 / 2)

they're here for one thing only...to dishearten Obama supporters and try to pick fights in hopes that they'll say something mean and Clinton supporters won't seek unity like they are. Unity scares some of them. They realize that if the party unites behind Obama, there's no chance of Hillary getting back in and winning in Denver.

Then they can damage Obama's standing in the polls enough to try to get Hillary to fight the nomination at the convention.

It's not going to work. It may defeat Obama in November, but it will NEVER elect Hillary Clinton.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:15:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not to be rude, but then . . . (1.00 / 0)

STFU.  Just STFU.  
Let them vent, ignore it, and it'll get better 'cause they're NOT gonna vote Mccain . . . unless you and your buds piss them off into doing so.
Seriously, name one good freakin' reason, and one possible positive result, of your continuing to attack Hillary?
Frankly, you're the one helping McCain.
March forward, don't look behind.
IMHO.
John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:20:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't attack Hillary (none / 0)

Where did I attack Hillary?

If anything some of these people are hurting her.

Look, there are some of her supporters who will NOT come over and they're going to try and try and try to destroy Obama in hopes of having her get back in and win.

She won't, because she's much better than that, but, yes, some of them will vote for McCain.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:24:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude, but then . . . (2.00 / 1)

Anyone who gives someone on a blog the power to prevent them from voting for the Democratic nominee...


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Again, why waste your breathe? (1.00 / 0)

If you think you're not gonna convince them, spend your time on better purposes.
And, they may just be venting before they do come around.
Sometimes, shutting up is the best answer.  IMH passive aggressive O.
John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:47:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Again, why waste your breathe? (none / 0)

I'm fine, just fine.  Wasting breath is why we're here.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:07:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL - silly me - - (1.00 / 0)

I forget some people come here FOR the fights.


John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL - silly me - - (none / 0)

Umm. You for instance?

This passive agressive act you have on is hilarious.

Are you going to write a diary and whine about me again?


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:27:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude (none / 0)

you are right.  Obama supporters have been bullying their way to the nomination for months now.  When I supported Edwards, and visited the Orange web site, we Edwards supporters were being pressured/ridiculed/mocked to support Obama instead of Hillary.  I went to Hillary.  Now they think they can bully us into voting for Obama.  Look, Obama's appeal is limited.  Kentucky chose Hillary by 2:1 in a CLOSED primary (that means only registered Democrats could vote).

Damn right they are hurting their candidate.


by WolfmanJack on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:04:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude (none / 0)

Umm. Edwards was easily the favorite at Kos until he dropped out.

This post makes no sense. The fact that you're spamming it all over the diary and your remark downthread makes me think you're just trolling the thread.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:23:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude (none / 0)

that is true, Edwards was a favorite at Kos before he dropped out.  But that site never was very favorable to Hillary, no?

By the way, I know you Obama supporters get off on calling everyone who disagrees with you "McCain trolls" but (if this site is like Kos) you can check a person's username, longevity, etc. We were Democrats until you Obama newbies came along.

I have been supporting Hillary since January (roughly two weeks before Edwards dropped out, because I saw it coming).  I have been visiting this site for months.

The blogs represent maybe 1% of the U.S. voting population. Whether we are here or not won't make us go away come November.


by WolfmanJack on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude (none / 0)

When I supported Edwards, and visited the Orange web site, we Edwards supporters were being pressured/ridiculed/mocked to support Obama instead of Hillary.

This is a lie. This lie makes everything else you wrote meaningless.

I never said you were a troll, I just said you were trolling. I'm not a newbie or one of the boyz either.

Why did you lie if not for the purpose of trolling?


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:50:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude (none / 0)

Were you there?  Were you an Edwards supporter at about the time he dropped out?  So overzealous Obama supporters have never/ever attempted to pressure people into supporting their candidate?  That is all the Kos site has been for months, the DailyObama.

Hillary supporters (like Alegre for one) left the site for that reason. The obnoxious Obama supporters. Do you not know that?


by WolfmanJack on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:20:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude (2.00 / 1)

I've been an Edwards supporter since 2003 and I am an almost daily visitor to kos.  And the Edwards people were attacking the Obama people on kos more than the other way around, if for no other reason than shear numbers.  And yes, they always disliked Hillary.

Within a week after Edwards dropped out, 80% of the Kossack Edwards supporters migrated to Obama and then started lighting into Clinton.  Even though I got behind Obama after Edwards dropped out, I started coming to mydd in addition to kos so I could get out of the Obama echo chamber and into the Clinton one.  Both sites engaged in horrible and vicious attacks on their less favored candidate and his/her supporters.

If you as an Edwards supporter didn't feel welcome on kos in January, I don't know where you would of, since they supported him 3-1 over Obama at that point.


Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.
by edparrot on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude (none / 0)

again, it was apparent he wasn't going to be the nominee, and both Hillary supporters and Obama supporters wanted that support.

I can't blame them for that, of course.   But the same Obama forces that drove Alegre and Jerome and others from Kos to MyDD, drove a lot of us here.  

The Obama supporters were/are just so much more "insistent" than the Hillary supporters (some would say obnoxius).


by WolfmanJack on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:00:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What I was told; (none / 0)

From the Obama supporters;

Obama is the true progressive choice, he didn't vote for the war, he's fresh and inspirational, he doesn't have much baggage (didn't at the time), he's registering hundreds of thousands of Democrats, he's energizing the party in a way it hasn't been energized for years. You should take a look at him.

From the Clinton supporters;

It's her turn, she's worked for this her whole life, she was first lady, she's a Clinton, it would be like the 1990's again, her husband is the only Democrat to win a Presidential election in a quarter century, only she can win. We need a woman President!

That's pretty much how it came across to this Edwards supporter.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:29:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was an Edwards supporter (none / 0)

when he dropped out. The only people who pressured me were Clinton supporters who said she deserved the nomination and that it would be treason to the party to support Obama.

Obama supporters did not pressure me to support him AT ALL. They made their case, albeit not a great one, but I was never pressured.

Clinton supporters told me good Democrats support the Clintons.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:25:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude (1.00 / 1)

Yes I was there. No, alegre didn't get run off.

She misled and spread lies and would not engage in the comments section. EVER. Hit and run diaries are worse than trolling.

As a longtime Kossack I find your analysis hilarious. That's why I called your bluff.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:27:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not to be rude (none / 0)

Um, Edwards was the dKos favorite, by far. I supported Edwards, am a longtime Kossack, and never once experience pressure to support Obama over Edwards.


by rhetoricus on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:53:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Newsflash (none / 0)

her appeal was limited too. Of course that doesn't matter since you supported her.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um (2.00 / 4)

"And I am a bit miffed at the fact that blacks can support Obama at 90% but women can't get their act together and support the first woman candidate in history at the same rates."

so it's women's fault Hillary lost?

"She stayed in because WE (women) are the ones who are entitled - she stayed in it for us."

Nobody's "entitled", not women, not blacks, not Hispanics, not white Protestant men. The fact that you think your gender entitles you to victory the first time a woman runs shows you are not looking for good policy or good politics, you're looking for a woman. I think you'd vote for Lynne Cheney if she got the GOP nomination.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:10:11 PM EST

Nobody's "entitled"... (2.00 / 2)

Nobody's "entitled", not women, not blacks, not Hispanics, not white Protestant men.

Thank you! I could not agree more. The presidency is earned, not bestowed. There are many reasons why Hillary lost (so, so many), but the main reason she lost is because she assumed she had already won...

That, right there, is the epitome of arrogance.


by Rhizomorph on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um (none / 0)

No it is not their fault but I don't remember how many I have talked to that hate Hillary for some perceived insult to themselves because she stayed with Bill Clinton or that say they don't trust her.

And if you will notice Hillary being the woman candidate is my 3rd reason to support her not my first.

However given equally qualified candidates (or in my mind a more experienced and a less experienced choice) I should choose the woman. We are not in the minority but we are under represented. I suppose Emily's list shouldn't exist either.

Being a bit miffed is not hate or blame. But sorry women do need to stick together.


by Bornagaindem on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 04:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know plenty of women (none / 0)

who hate her for various reasons and voted against her in part because she's not who they wanted as their first President.

You don't know how many times I heard "Not THAT woman"

and I substituting "woman" or a more vulgar term coming out of FEMALE mouths.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:27:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (2.00 / 1)

kool-aid?  I thought we were past the name calling.


United we stand, divided we fall.
by mefeck on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:10:31 PM EST

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

Kool-Ade isn't name calling. It's a metaphor.

And Obama's supporters are always past name calling when they're the ones being subjected to it. Otherwise...


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Otherwise what? (none / 0)

what names have you been called?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:17:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Otherwise what? (2.00 / 1)

Troll, McCain hack, GOP shill, irrational, deluded...

In addition (from other obama supporting sites):

had two Obama supporters tell me I should kill myself, one ask if I vomit when I look in the mirror, among other real incivilities.

Obamans can be brutal.  I've felt the same debating them as I did debating Republicans.  

In other words, no change.


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton supporters have called me (2.00 / 4)

Sexist, a woman hater, one asked me if I beat my wife.

Back when I supported Edwards, Clinton supporters even called me racist and not a real progressive because "I'm still voting for the white guy"

Boy, if I paid attention to the supporters, I'd probably vote for McCain.

Thankfully, I pay no attention to them because they make up such a small number. I do not ask Clinton supporters to apologize for them, but I do ask that somebody be the bigger person.

"But some of you do it too" is childish. Maybe being the bigger person would help your argument.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:29:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton supporters have called me (none / 0)

While I don't condone that, you are all missing the point.

Clinton didn't base her campaign on change and unity and ending divisive and negative politics. Obama did, and supposedly you were all inspired by this message.

You therefore have a higher standard to meet in terms of ACTING on it.

It never fails to amaze me how often I have to explain this concept to none other than Obama supporters!  Quite amazing.


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:13:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton supporters have called me (2.00 / 1)

Obama did, and supposedly you were all inspired by this message.

First of all, there's nothing we were all supposedly. Unlike your beliefs we're not all automatons, carbon copies of each other. Different people support Obama for different reasons. You support him now because he's the nominee. I supported him from before because I trusted him better than Clinton -- I liked Edwards too. Others supported him because he inspired them. Others supported him because he was the only one against the Iraq war from the stars. Yet others supported him because he was the first viable AA candidate. We all had our different reasons.

His message of unity and non-divisiveness was way way way down the list for me. Not that I didn't like it, but it was hardly a blimp on my radar screen.

Secondly one of these days you'll realize that the reason your argument isn't convincing anyone is because it's a terrible and insane argument that you're using to excuse all kinds of atrocious behaviour on your part.

Your argument is roughly the equivalent of this:
"My god is Huitzilopochtli, he who bathes in blood, so you pacifist Christians should let me murder you and not lift a finger to help yourselves. Shame on you for not following the edicts of your god. I never claimed am a pacifist so it's okay if we do war and murder you all, but you shouldn't defend yourselves. Shame. Shame."


by Aris Katsaris on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:31:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton supporters have called me (none / 0)

Mojo'd for Huitzilopochtli reference.  My favorite Aztec god!


by Captain Bathrobe on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:47:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton supporters have called me (none / 0)

Juno, I'm sorry that you were on the receiving end of some hostile remarks from some Obama supporters, and I'm glad to you don't condone similar remarks that have come from Clinton supporters.

But I disagree with you that one side should be held to a higher standard of conduct than the other. Both sides need to treat each other with respect.

My experience on MyDD has been that the majority of Clinton supporters and Obama supporters here are rational, polite and respectful of people's opinions as long as you avoid insults, name-calling, intentional lies or praising McCain.

People on both sides also tend to get riled up when they are stereotyped or pigeon-holed, so I suggest trying not to make comments such as "All Obama supporters do this" or "All Clinton supporters do that."

Just my two cents.


by jdusek on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:11:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton supporters have called me (none / 0)

I can't understand why the point I'm trying to make is so difficult for people to grasp.

I'm not saying they need to be held to a higher standard out of civility.  I'm saying they do because that is what their candidate RAN on: change, hope, unity, ending the negative and divisive politics.

It's the very essence and platform of his campaign, and if his own supporters aren't influenced by him to change their tone and stop divisive behavior, then I don't see how it can be expected that Obama will succeed with actual adversaries.

In other words, they nullify Obama.


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton supporters have called me (none / 0)

I do understand your point, I just disagree with your opinion that Obama's supporters should be judged by a different standard because of their candidate's platform.

That's like saying that Hillary's supporters should make fewer mistakes because their candidate ran on a platform of experience and readiness.

We are not our candidates, even though we may embrace many of their values and ideals.

But all that's beside the point -- the point I was trying to make is that there are plenty of fair-minded, courteous supporters of both candidates here, so it's best that people refrain from judging either group based on the actions of a few.


by jdusek on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 07:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton supporters have called me (none / 0)

Sorry, but I think Obama's supporters have been overwhelmingly rude and nasty.

Your analogies are not good ones.  A better analogy would be if Clinton supporters supported her because of her experience but then go on blogs an bleated about how experience doesn't matter.

THAT is the analogy. Besides, Clinton's platform of experience is about HER experience, not about her supporters' experience.  Obama's platform is about creating unity and ending division and changing the tone, change, hope and inspiration, and those things ARE about individual citizens.


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 07:17:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton supporters have called me (none / 0)

Well, I'm sorry that you have been treated rudely. I can assure you that nasty remarks have been made by supporters of both candidates, but if you feel it's been lopsided, there's probably not much I can do to change your mind.

As for my imperfect analogy, it was in response to your claim that Obama supporters are not embodying the ideals of their candidate. It's not that Obama fans are coming on blogs and talking about how Hope and Change don't matter, it's that you feel they are saying one thing and doing another. I disagree that the majority of Obama supporters are engaging in this behavior, and that certainly hasn't been my experience here on MyDD, but again you are entitled to your opinion.

I guess all I can do is promise you that I have never called a Clinton support a derogatory name, that I have never made vicious remarks about Clinton (and have always said I would vote for her in the GE), and that I have tried to respect opposing points of view. I try to live up to the values that you're describing, and my criticism has largely been reserved for people who are actively promoting divisions or spreading misinformation, regardless of who they may support.


by jdusek on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 08:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Otherwise what? (2.00 / 3)

It's ironic that you complain about being insulted and then refer to Obama supporters on every diary as Obamans. How old are you?


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Otherwise what? (none / 0)

1) I don't complain about it. someone asked me what names I've been called and I answered.

What I complain about is the disconnect of many Obama supporters and his campaign them of change and ending division and negative politics.

What others say about me has nothing to do with me and is a reflection of them.

I will be 47 years old on June 14.

I use Obamans the same way people say Californians. It's easier than saying "People who live in California" every time.

What on earth would make Obamans insulting???


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:12:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Otherwise what? (none / 0)

If you are 47, you should be wise and mature enough to understand and realize that the kool-aid references are highly insulting.

The fact that you continue to use divisive terms speaks volumes.


United we stand, divided we fall.
by mefeck on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:45:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Otherwise what? (none / 0)

Please show me where I used the term Kool-Aid.

And all Kool-Aid is is a metaphor, which IS an adult thing. You think children should be going around invoking Jim Jones???


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:50:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Otherwise what? (none / 0)

I was actually referring to the diarist and got you both confused in my previous comment.  The diarist uses kool-aid in their diary.

Metaphors (which this is not in the strict sense) can be just as hateful and damaging as calling someone a name.  A distinction without a difference.


United we stand, divided we fall.
by mefeck on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 04:00:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Otherwise what? (none / 0)

this is not a hateful metaphor. You only think so because it's directed at Obama supporters.

It's a perfectly acceptable term to use to describe a group you think is blindly following along.


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 04:54:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So it's ok (none / 0)

if I use it to describe women for Hillary, since pretty much all their doing is blindly following the first woman who runs?

Nah, nevermind, I won't, I like being the bigger person.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So it's ok (none / 0)

A person doesn't become female by drinking Kool-Ade.

Voting for Clinton because she's female is NOT drinking Kool-Ade because gender is not an indoctrination.


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:32:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

I consider using the term "Kool-Aid drinkers" to describe Obama supporters to be name-calling, since it implies that they are members of a suicidal/homicidal cult.  It's like using the term "feminazis" to describe feminists.  Obama supporters bear no more similarity to cult members than feminists do to Nazis.  Sure, you can call it a metaphor, but it's a damn offensive one.


by Captain Bathrobe on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:56:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

wow Kool-aid = nazis. I'll tell my kids

Who knew they were suicidal for liking it?

I am forever amazed...........


by Bornagaindem on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 03:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

Oh come on.  You weren't seriously using the term "Kool-Aid drinkers" to literally mean "those who drink Kool-Aid" and nothing else.  Aren't you being just a tad disingenuous?

My point is that it is offensive to compare Obama supporters to the followers of the Reverend Jim Jones, just as it is offensive to compare feminists to Nazis.  It's not that hard to understand, unless you are being deliberately obtuse.


by Captain Bathrobe on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:17:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

And, I might add, if you don't know who Jim Jones was, then you should study history before using such a loaded term.


by Captain Bathrobe on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 05:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

Juno was absolutely correct in that I use Kool-aid drinkers to mean "followers who blindly support their candidate" and somehow think he is holier than thou.

I am aware of the Jim Jones followers suicide but I did not know they drank the poison in Kool-aid. No one else seems to have a problem equating Kool-aid drinker with blind follower.


by Bornagaindem on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 07:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (1.50 / 2)

Sorry but if you wear a T-shirt that says the only truth that stands before is Obama -you are a Kool-aid drinker


by Bornagaindem on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:23:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well I like kool-aid (none / 0)

and I'm not apologizing for it.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:25:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

PLEASE no one TR me. (2.00 / 3)

I just think this is really funny and well done:

Of course, it was actually flavor-aid. I'll post a funny pic of Hillary if it makes anyone feel better...


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:36:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PLEASE no one TR me. (2.00 / 1)

That is sick. I'm using it as my Facebook profile picture.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:43:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What SO pisses me off.. (2.00 / 1)

...was that "Kool-Aid drinker" was invented by the left to describe the right. And clever, I thought. Then Billo co-opted it, because he has never had an original thought in his life. Now it's way overused, not funny anymore (except your pic is kinda cute).

It's the same with the term "political correctness." It was invented by the left to good-naturedly poke fun at the left, and the right stole it and used it against the left as some sort of serious weapon. Lame, dude! We should copyright our cute little sayings. ;)


by rhetoricus on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 07:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TR? Like hell. (2.00 / 1)

I only regret that I have but one Rec to give for your Kool-Aid.  Too funny, sricki.

What can I say?  I'm an Obaman with a twisted sense of humor.

OTOH, if there's something that you actually consider consider to be a funny pic of Hillary, that alone qualifies it as something likely to be genuinely amusing, so if you've got one, please do!  :-)

Prog


by Progressive Witness on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 07:45:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh, thanks. (none / 0)

It struck me as very amusing. I was searching for a funny Hillary pic, but I'm mostly finding RW, sexist crap. Most of the "funny" Obama pics are racist. *sigh* These people have a very poor sense of humor. But if I find anything good, you'll be the first to know.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 12:26:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

One TR should suffice. (2.00 / 1)

If you post a poorly written bitter diary on a website devoted to electing Democrats, you might be a (fill in the blank.)


by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:29:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uhhh... (none / 0)

Some advice:


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:11:42 PM EST

I don't quite know how to respond to this (2.00 / 3)

My first impulse is to try to convince the diarist  that Obama is a good candidate with logic and facts and such, but that seems like a lost cause.

My second impulse is to say "Ugh" and move on, but that seems rude.

So I'll address an early point.  The diarist is upset that African Americans supported Obama more strongly than women supported Clinton, and this is because women have some odd habit of betraying each other.  Is it feasible that Obama's message and stance on issues resonated more strongly with African Americans than Clinton's message and stances resonated with women? Maybe?


by GreenHills on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:12:38 PM EST

Re: The only Truth that stands before us is Obama- (none / 0)

It is interesting that the minority that comprises 10% of the population has made greater strides in terms of rejection of the ism with which they are plagued and beating the other to be a presidential nominee, than the "minority" that comprises more than half the population (the fact that women are called a minority when they are in fact a majority says it all).


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:15:08 PM EST

When have women (none / 0)

been called a minority? I've never heard that.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:16:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When have women (none / 0)

I think you're right. I need to rephrase. Women are always lumped IN with minorities, as in "women and minorities" and are treated as such. I do think, though, that women have been referred to as a minority, errantly so.


by Juno on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When have women (none / 0)

I think they are called a minority more because of business and political influence.  The amount of influence wielded by women is obviously much much bigger than in the past but its still in the minority compared to men... meaning its not 50-50 or even 40-60 women to men.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 06:13:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, exactly (none / 0)

They are proportionately underrepresented in positions of power.


by rhetoricus on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 07:15:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth that stands (2.00 / 5)

I am a bit miffed at the fact that blacks can support Obama at 90% but women can't get their act together and support the first woman candidate in history at the same rates

People aren't required to vote for someone who looks like them. Also, I've heard that race is considered a more unifying and compelling factor than gender. And there may be another reason African Americans are supporting Obama at such a high rate -- his stance on the war. Black Churches and black pastors have a history of opposing unnecessary wars -- they tend to be more vocal about it than a lot of other churches (although there are plenty of others that oppose the war). It's possible that Hillary's AUMF vote is especially disconcerting to them.

Wherein you forfeited your credibility:

Based on my direct experiences here with the Kool-aid drinkers

Stopped reading there.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:16:28 PM EST

Actually, most black people supported Hillary (2.00 / 1)

until her surrogates (and finally she) started trying to use Obama's heritage against him.

Girl did THAT backfire! And it will against Bush/McSame as well since there's no way they won't try it too -- as this diary evidences.


Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.
by Freespeechzone on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She first started losing AA (2.00 / 3)

support after Iowa, when they realized Obama could really win.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:29:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She first started losing AA (none / 0)

True, realizing Obama's electability was part of it. But the main reason was her campaign's treatment of black people as the primaries unfolded. The black community had a very high regard for the Clintons and, more importantly, felt as though the Clintons had a high regard for them. So there was a very strong sense of betrayal as a result of how they were treated.

And I'm so sick of people saying that Obama had so much support in the black community because he too is black. It wasn't about black folks flocking TO Obama because he was black, it was about them moving AWAY from Hillary because she was dissing them.

Were there some who did vote for him just because he was black? No doubt. Just as there were many women who voted for Hillary just because she was a woman. But since there are WAY more women voters than black voters, the net result is a clear advantage for Hillary. So this whole demographic-bias talk, as if it somehow explains Hillary's loss, is pure BS.


by Rhizomorph on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:03:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The only Truth (2.00 / 2)

Ah, thanks for your faux concern.  Seriously, do you folks down at McCain HQ really think you're going to siphon off good Democrats with this phony shit?  Get your secret decoder ring yet?

I know you folks realize that the idiot demographic that is McCain's base is shrinking, so your only strategy is to get folks to not vote their best interests; but really, this is pathetic.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:21:22 PM EST

Bigots are always the last to see themselves... (2.00 / 2)

So is America ready for a black president, maybe, but in my mind not this black nominee against this republican nominee.

...as normal people do.

Stop projecting your antiquated prejudice onto America. We're better than that.


Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.
by Freespeechzone on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:21:22 PM EST

Re: Bigots are always the last to see themselves.. (none / 0)

 And if I asked so is america ready for a woman president you would have called me sexist? It is a valid question and doesn't make me racist  unless we live in Nazi germany.


by Bornagaindem on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 12:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In short....yes. (none / 0)

And if I asked so is america ready for a woman president you would have called me sexist?

Especially if it was asked in a perjorative way to attack the Democratic nominee.

But people like you actually do Obama a service by giving decent people who are the majority in this country another reason to rally around him.


Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.
by Freespeechzone on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 01:28:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All women are traitors for not supporting Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

My girlfriend's business is about 80% women, a high percentage are women of color?

It was really tough for a lot of them, they represent that core constituancy that Bill had at his back throughout his years in office.

Many of them were for Hillary at first, the comment was "no blackman OR black woman will ever be elected President"...

Many switched after Iowa...

Virtually ALL switched after SC.

To a person, they were deeply offended by Bill's Jesse Jackson comment.

This is true, I have been called a liar on this form for claiming this, but be that as it may.

So, I think there is a group of women, those of color, that this poster throws under the bus without any consideration?

Don't THEY consist of a group that maybe had a tough time, being BOTH female and of color?

All of us think we are free of racism, but even subconciously it creeps in when we don't even see it?


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially en